Paul Schmidt) On 20 July 1944 a clique of German officers initiated the most famous plot to kill Adolf Hitler: Operation Valkyrie. Meanwhile, the Wehrmacht and the SS continue to fight, with the SS, drained of manpower, beginning to get the worst of the fight, losing one hundred men in Krakow alone. Britain, wishing to preserve the balance, intervenes and together, the Brits and the Germans win and Germany turns France into a client state. Unite! Butthere was noneed to tell the German people that just yet. The 15th Army crosses the Seine and engages the BEF, who hold strong at first but retreat five miles by the end of the day, only to find that the bridges over the Orae river had been destroyed. My question is: If the plot had been successful on July 20th 1944, would the Allies have accepted a truce and would the Russians . The basic point of these generals was that they were against the Nazis and their ideals. They will be targeted at the Mulbury harbors, major roads, bridges and Allied troop concentrations. Would it even change much? By dark,the Allies have been cut almost inthree. And if yes, how much? July 17th, 1944:Panzers captured by the Wehrmacht from the 10th SS Panzer Division take Corenton, but Allied forces soon move into the city anda "New Stalingrad" as some say begins. avalon at edgewater fire stump blinds. Field guide Rushada Schutte, who shot the remarkable footage, told HuffPost on Wednesday that the. A career officer in the army, Stauffenberg had seen combat in many major campaigns and been dismayed by reports of . Claus von Stauffenberg had placed the briefcase containing the bomb under the table of the conference room as close to Adolf Hitler as he could get it. General Fellgiebel, would radio Olbricht with the news that the assassination had succeeded, Stauffenberg waited for the explosion before . By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Operation Valkyrie was done by conservative German military officers opposed to the Nazis who felt that if Hitler was killed they could take power in Germany and negotiate an armistice with the Allies. Hitler suicide was almost 9 months after the operation which ended the war. (This is one year before the successful first atomic test.) But that was unacceptable to the west, wasn't it? Preview the Files in both Lightning Experience and Lighting Community Download the Files in both Lightning Experience and Lighting Community Delete the files Upload new files under the same record Filter the files based on created date and file title Sync the files > from Salesforce if the file has been uploaded from a different place. 2:00am: General von Stauffenburg sends confirmation that Hitler was dead after getting word from a very confused Herman Gring, who's quickly arrested as a member of the "coup". July 12th, 1944: The revolt in Nuremburg is still taking place; some 400 soldiers and civilians have died. Discussions on alternate history, including events up to 20 years before today. Had the General's siezed the organs of power, and had Hitler been dead, I imagine that they would have eventually decided that unconditional surrender to the Western Allies was better than letting the Red Army unleash itself on Greater Germany. It was designed to ensure the continuity of government in the event of a general breakdown in civil order of the nation. and our Cookie Notice 4:00 pm: Remer's soldiers gas large parts of the Bindler Block. Goerdlor authorizes the use of gas on the eastern front and only the eastern front. 8:00am: Theofficers of the AlgemeineSS have opened fireonRemer's troopsand theirheadquarters have been gassed. The SS have begun using flags with SS lighting bolts on them instead of the traditional swastika. Hitler's two-front war proved too much for his fascist state and . Post So, Nazism had to go. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. 11:00 pm: Operation Valkyrie appears to have succeeded in its first goals to destroy the Nazi regime with the roundup of over 3,000 SS and Nazi officials. Not that it would've made any difference First it would had caused split between Soviets and Western Allies. The 4-bedroom house went viral for a homemade sign hanging in a bedroom. That's right, today on Hearts of Iron 4 we take a look at a scenario where Operation Valkyrie (the mission to remove Hilter succeeds) and Rommel takes comman. Carl Wagner, (born May 25, 1901, Leipzig, Ger.died Dec. 10, 1977, Gttingen, W.Ger. World Maps. Operation Valkyrie (German: Unternehmen Walkre) was a German World War II emergency continuity of government operations plan issued to the Territorial Reserve Army of Germany to execute and implement in the event of a general breakdown in civil order of the nation. The Warsaw uprising did take place soon after the German coup, and if the Germans are divided between rebels and loyalists, perhaps the Polish revolt will succeed, or be crushed by the Russians instead of the Germans, but the Red Army could not advance any further at that time (it is said), so will Poland be independent 1944? FDRwants to make peace with a new regime, but Winston Churchill says that the demand for unconditional surrender appliesnot to Hitler but to the German nation. Given the nature of the situation on all fronts, General VonStauffenburg recommends the production and use of nerve gas. That's the only option. But the Anglo-Americans must be made to see Germany is willing to negotiate and not at all desperate. Fantasy Map Generator. . Chancellor Goerdlor appoints General von Stauffenburg as the nation's new Propaganda Minister after seeing how his speech had convinced almost ten million Germans to side with them. A secret memorandum is sent to General Rommel, who hasn't read it yet. 7:00 pm: With Berlin secured, Wermacht troops all over Germany have a clear command anda clear order: arrest all SS, Nazi and Gestapo officials. Log in or Sign up to interact with the community. The German people begin rounding upand reporting SS sympathizers. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features Press Copyright Contact us Creators . Stauffenburg drives to Hitler's residence, the Berghof, with General Friedrich Fromm of the Reserve Army (although not a memberof the resistance aproponent for reform inthearmy)and a contingent of Army officers loyal to the resistance as his"assistants" to ensure the safety of the Generals. The plotters have decided their best chance of success is to persuade military commanders and the German public that a cabal within the SS and Gestapo has assassinated Hitler and that their coup is in reality a countercoup. Ahead of the theatrical premiere of Valkyrie, starring Tom Cruise, Koch Vision brings the 2008 documentary Operation Valkyrie: The Stauffenberg Plot . 8:15 am:The last officers of the Algemeine SShave surrendered. Operation Valkyrie. Operation Valkyrie is a success, and the Nazi regime falls. Perfect World. Interested in gaining a new perspective on . He is replaced by RudolfHeidrich as head of the Luftwaffe. July 6th, 1944:The concentration camps areshut down and the inmatesthere are given temporary shelterby Wehrmacht troops. Alternative History is a FANDOM Lifestyle Community. Fifteen civilians have been killed, as well as three Wermacht troops and seven SS officials. (Watch the video below.) A total of 600 people have died. It's also for this reason that SOE decided AGAINST assassinating Hitler. It looks at what might have happened if an actual assassination attempt on Hitler had succeeded in March 1943 and how Manstein might have been able to execute the "backhand" strategy that he favored using a mobile defense. By this time, the SS and the Wehrmacht were fighting together, and the Luftwaffe was always a Nazi creation. Operation Valkyrie. Imaginary Maps! The 6th SS Panzer division, presently in Belgium after being moved after the coup, has sworn allegiance to the Goerdler government after seeing how badly needed tanks were in Normandy. In Nazi Germany, Operation Valkyrie was an emergency plan by Hitler which was to be used if an uprising occurred that threatened the regime. What would have happened if Hitler had had his leg blown off, but was otherwise still fully. Operation Valkyrie was already an established military plan. Hosted by Terry Duncan. The rest of Europe will not tolerate this and so war is declared in June 1879. But honor his memory and all the good he has donefor our country. Demoralized and fragmented, Germany would've lost the war quicker. If the operation succeeded and Hitler was killed, and Nazis were thrown out of the ruling, would the general stop the war? From the Bindler Block,they begin taking command of allSS units in Berlin. The Goerdeler Government's popularity rises by15%. The German 352nd infantry division has pushedwest along the coast, recapturing Sword beach; the 91st has attacked North, driving the British against the 352nd, with nobridges to evacuate over. But the body of Heinrich Himmler is notfound. General Sir Miles Dempsey asks permission to attempt to withdraw and leaveall heavy equipment in order to save the livesof the remaining soldiers. However, with no propaganda ministry and no minister of propaganda either, the Goerdler Government's first newsreel to the public left much to be desired. but aslong as the Germans can hold,the Allied forces in Cherbourg havebeen cut off. Alternate History. Stauffenburg responds suddenlyon the radio and tellsthe German peoplein his first public address thatHimmler said nothing of the greater good of Germany, and thatall true patriots should place loyalty to theircountry above allegiance to the remains of the Nazi Party. by Tim Smith 13 Jul 2009, 12:54, Post Candidates for the position are becoming a growing priority. Goerdler considers a ceasefire with the SS, so as to focus all available resources on staging off total defeat. And Stalin does not evenrespond with anythingbut,"One lessGerman to shoot." SS troops have resisted much more in Prague. Fantasy Map Generator. Language Map. An anti-German coup in Denmark has begun. I mean the war was pretty much lost for the Germans at that point but could. Hebegins to organize Remer's troops to assault the BindlerBlock. So Roosevelt was not prepared to do ANYTHING which might upset Stalin. The troops of the reserve army take Amtsgruppe B of the SS. July 16th, 1944: Only ten days after the coup, Rommel begins the counterattack in Normandy. This is seen as a sign of separation of the SS from the rest of Germany, and is to be used for propaganda against the SS. Translated by Mark Howson and Cary Ryan. He challenges all loyalNational Socialists to take up arms againstthe new government to restoreHitler's party to power. At first there was chaos in the German army, but as orders were sent out the outnumbered Waffen SS begin to surrender in droves. For more information, please see our The 15th Army is ready to cross theDieres and attack the British beachhead in the east. by Galahad 07 May 2002, 19:09, Post The "V" weapons are reported ready and prepared to fire. by Ben Verde. General Beck is made the new president, and GeneralRommel, a sympathizer tothe plotis appointed the newsupreme commander of the Wermacht. benelli montefeltro replacement rib x x 6. the RAFmanages to bomb the15th Army enough to halt them. We directly support the repository at WW2.ORG, and several other worthwhile projects that add to the historical record. If the atomic bomb didn't work, then an full-scale invasion of the Japanese home islands would have been necessary, and to pull that off, Soviet help against Japan would be needed in the Far East. by vszulc 21 Jul 2009, 05:35, Post Plans are drawn up in minute detail to kill Hitler with a pair of British bombs in one week. Welcome to WWII Forums! With so many IF threads I started thinking scenarios, and I had never thought what would have happened if Operation Valkyrie had succeeded. Now my fish swim into my net.". Heinrich Himmler is seen in Holland, where the civil administration of the Nazis has been controlled by the SS since the beginning of the coup. Furthermore, the 1944 Valkyrie only would have killed Hitler which would release the German army from its loathsome personal loyalty oath, it nonetheless would mean that the SS and propaganda machines would be quite effectual. Rommel doesn't completely trust the new allegiance and puts them in reserve. He knows that the Soviets will not make peace now and that something must be done to slow their advance. That's the only effect I can imagine. July7th, 1944: Himmler and a group of SS officersattack and occupy a radio station and begin broadcasting to the Germans that theGoerdelor government was the cause of the coup, that they were defeatists and that they had killed Hitler. They drive to an airport and are flown to Berlin. Chaos erupts in Nuremburg and dozens are killed and wounded every hour. In fact if Operation Valkyrie was Success full then Beria would had tried to kill Stalin and stop of madness for restoration of Russian Empire. Nazi ideology had now spread like a virus through most of Germany. More . Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. With the Normandy landings making no progress, a decision must be made soon in case of a defeat and morale disaster for the Allies. Operation Valkyrie. Himmler is an enemy of us all, and he would see us destroyed not for the nation, but for the radical creed of his fanatics. In fact Cold War which started after end of war would had started at the movement Operation Valkyrie was Success full. The assassination of Hitler, minus Tom Cruise. Enjoy your international travels on a completely different level! by princeliberty10311517 10 Jul 2009, 01:54, Post It is quickly modified to replace the slavelaborers with the Nazi SS, in the event that they should stage a coup. by IAR80 07 May 2002, 20:54, Post Founded in 1999. Unite for Germany, againstHimmler, against our enemies. The military resistance in the German Army views Hitler's lack of action with horror, and begin to speed up their plans to assassinate him and most of his inner circle. Welcome to the WWII Forums! Perfect . Share maps you have made of alternate history, fantasy, sci-fi or anything really! The coup-makers plans to achieve a separate peace were thus unrealistic, even if they had got total control over Germany. Two hours after arriving, Stauffenburg gets up to take a phone call. So, even if they had been able to exercise control over the Wehrmacht, could they have exercised control over the now powerful and fanatical SS? Even if they had somehow took power in Germany this was the summer of 1944. The buildings in the town are quickly reducedto rubble with German rockets and Alliedair forces attempting toknock their opponents out ofthe town. Suddenly there is a large explosion and an entire corner of the house is blown apart. A few minutes later heis found twenty feet away from the house, blown out ofthe window. "Success" of Valkyrie hinged on two events; killing Hitler, and seizing the opportunity provided by the confusion to seize power, primarily in Berlin, hoping that the centralisation of power into the hands of the conspirators through the highly secretive emergency preparations made for a counter-coup in the paranoid third Reich, would be enough to wrest power from the faithful, given the amount of confusion and counter-information.. 3:30 am: Roundups of Nazi, SS and Gestapo officials begin all over Germany and in occupied cities in western Europe. Privacy Policy. While no response was given, the Goerdler government is optimistic. by Pumpkin 08 May 2002, 12:45, Post The General is surprised, but accepts. He and the other SS prisoners are shot within seconds ofthe order. by Panzerkampfwagen 25 Dec 2010, 17:19. Alternate History. . Soviet forces begin the main wave of their attack ahead of schedule, seeing that the Wehrmacht is in disarray. June 30th, 1944: Allies have made little progress against German occupation forces in hedgerow country. With masses of T-34s beginning to move around the city, it becomes apparent to Generals Guderian and Rommel that an encirclement is imminent. Butsix million prisonershave already been killed by the SS. . Now we must persevere as a nation. It begins at one minute past midnight, with the bombing of bridges and harbors with rockets. Imaginary Maps. With the Normandy landings and the coup in full effect this offensive is hoped to catch the Germans when they're most vulnerable. While only 20% of the missiles aimed at harbors reach their targets, the effects are devastating. Mar 16, 2022, 08:21 AM EDT. The American 6th Army is prepared to move from Italy to the newly liberated Corsica to spearhead the invasion of southern France, scheduled to commence in mid August. June 6th, 1944: D-Day; Allies land at Normandy and gain a beachhead by the end of the day. That's the whole point: the generals knew Germany was losing and wanted end the war before the soviets reached its borders and hoping they would save the country by alligning themselves with the w. allies. MSI-B360-10.15.7-EFI clover oc -v In memory Panic Stackshot Succeeded > . ReserveArmy troops begin arresting Nazi and Gestapo officials in Paris. despite manybroken bones, he is stillalive. Re: What-if Operation Valkyrie had been fully implemented. Since then, Olbricht and the other conspirators have recrafted Valkyrie into a plan to neutralize SS and Gestapo installations and capture communications facilities. 4:30 pm:Remer's soldiers storm the Bindler Block, encountering only 17 SS troopsstill resisting. Orchestrated by Claus von Stauffenberg, a German military officer long-disillusioned with the Nazi regime, it attempted to bring an end to the war and free the German soldiers from their oath of loyalty to the Fhrer. American forces have decided not to make a serious attempt to break the Gothic Line in Italy until after the situation at Normandy has been resolved. Four panzer divisions are ready for a counterattack in Normandy. If 1943 had succeeded or one of the earlier attempts had worked, then maybe something different would have happened. In Warsaw, the Polish resistance has begun to prepare for an uprising to coincide with a major defeat of the Germans, still awaited. by Von Schadewald 09 Jul 2009, 22:49, Post He calls his assistants and General Fromm out as well, before leading them all out of the house and into an awaiting car. Not So Free Germany. 5:00 pm: Olbrecht and Stauffenburg drive to the Bindler Block andorder the execution of Reinhard Heydrich, captured justminutes before. In fact if Operation Valkyrie was Success full then Beria would had tried to kill Stalin and stop of madness for restoration of Russian Empire. With a consolidated Luftwaffe force of some 200 planes, they make 30 miles inone day, sighting the channel by dusk. Operation Barbarossa, the codename for Hitler's invasion of the USSR, has gone down in history as one of the greatest military mistakes ever. That would likely fall flat, but after it does, then what? Zillow . by Jurgen Wullenwever 09 Jul 2009, 18:59, Post A hungry lion charged at vultures and hyenas feeding on an elephant carcass in South Africa's Timbavati Game Reserve recently and he had extra motivation to keep the remains for himself. What do you think would have happened in and to Germany if Fromm hadn't waffled during the 20 July putsch attempt? Roosevelt didn't want an Allied/Soviet split because he was worried that the atomic bomb might not work. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Join in if you dare! Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The average German begins to rememberthe times of the anarchy before Hitler's rise to power and doesn't know who to trust. Imaginary Maps! You are at a gateway to WWII discussion, research, exploration, & analysis. July 9th, 1944: Stauffenburgs impromptu speech hasproved incredibly successful against Himmler's. July 5th, 1944:an official appealfor a ceasefire to discuss a new peacewas sent to London, Rome,Washington, and Moscow. Filmswere madeof the skeleton-like prisonerstobe used as propaganda against theSS and Himmler, stillmissing. Still Image. Share maps you have made of alternate history, fantasy, sci-fi or anything really! What-if Operation Valkyrie had been fully implemented? This is an apolitical forum for discussions on the Axis nations and related topics hosted by the Axis History Factbook in cooperation with Christian Ankerstjernes Panzerworld and Christoph Awender's WW2 day by day. Over 100 are wounded. If Germany lives to thefullest of the Fhrer's dream, your children will say that this was your finest hour. Exactly 24 hours after beginning the coup, the resistance members begin organizing the new government. What if Operation Valkyrie succeeded and a peace was made between the Allies and Germany. Rommel has begun to move the V-2 rockets and flying bombs into position around the Normandy beachhead; They must be moved at night in French carts given the nature of the Allied air superiority. In the chaos that followed, the General and the other resistance members simply tell the SS guards that they have orders from the Fhrer and are let through. Ad by Pimsleur Language Programs Start speaking a new language in just 30 days! In modern times, Operation Valkyrie is known as the failed plot to kill Hitler. June 30th, 1944: Allies have made little progress against German occupation forces in hedgerow country. July 10th, 1944:SS supporters in Nuremburg stage a revolt and begin summary executions of all Wermacht officers. ). Tim Smith. Harry_Boomers. There he learns that ReinhardHeydrich has barricaded himself and the last resisting SS troops there. Save. AnyDesk is a remote desktop application distributed by AnyDesk Software GmbH. Roosevelts infamous unconditional surrender speech, Alternate Endings Ten Hypothetical Events That Would Have Changed the Outcome of World War Two, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. July 15th, 1944: The revolt in Nuremburg has been crushed with the use of reserve Wehrmacht troops. Asthe new Chancellor,Goerdelor addresses the people of Germany and says to them"The radicals around Heinrech Himmlergrew too radical even for the Fhrer himself. It is estimated that during WW2, 80% of German casualties came on the Eastern Front, equating to more than three million lives. Operation Valkyrie, the intention was to use the Reserve Army in the German homeland to take control of German cities, disarm the SS and arrest the Nazi leadership once Hitler had been assassinated. If Operation Valkyrie had succeeded, what would've been the next step by the new German government: seek peace separately with the United Nations or continue the war on all fronts? by wildboar 08 Jul 2009, 13:58, Post Long livethe Fatherland.". The proprietary software program provides platform independent remote access to personal computers and other devices running the host application. The military resistance in the German Army views Hitler's lack of action with horror, and begin to speed up their plans to assassinate him and most of his inner circle. Hitler dies, Bulgaria gets it nice, Romania is probably f***ed, but for Hungary the situation likewise rocked, for Finland it all depends on whether Germany reached an agreement with East or West and how fast and effectively Finland negotiated. 6: 00am: Stauffenburg leadsacompany of reserve army troops and begins an assault on theSS Amtsgruppe A of the SS,the nerve center of the SS throughout Europe. July 4th, 1944: TheAllies are still trapped at Normandy, but hundreds of thousands of soldiers arrive in France everyday now, in preparation for the breakout. In the east, Soviet tanks have almost completely cut off Minsk and the 100,000 German troops there have begun to quickly withdraw to avoid being cut off. 8:00 pm: Beck gets word that Vienna, Paris, and Nuremburg have all been secured. Operation Valkyrie: The German Generals' Plot Against Hitler. Likely nothing. July 1st, 11:00 pm1944:Allies still stuck making advances of a few meters a day. Discussion in 'What If - Other' started by WarCorrespondant24, Jul 27, 2017. The plan is code-named Operation Valkyrie, an already existing plan to assemble the reserve army in the event of a civil or slave labor uprising. Yuno_Gasai_w_beczce. The Wehrmacht calls up several battalions of newly recruited Volkstrumm, or militia, to counter the uprising, only to find that many of the militia are loyal to the SS. . As the Fhrer's successors, we now do not address you as what part of the party you are; whether you are a part of the army or in a factory working for the good of the nation,or a mother ensuring our future, we ask you as citizens, and individuals to consider the greater goodof your country and tostand behindus to ensure Germany's future. July 14th, 1944: The SS make a large attack on the Wehrmacht troops in Poland, where the SS has had control for years. They didnt seem to care much for legal matters when it suited them though, managing to ignore all the regulations in their pay books, like not shooting prisoners of war, turning them over to lynch mobs, or executing escapees. Two minutes after they leave SS guards recover the charred remains of Josef Gbbels, General Alfred Jodl and Adolf Hitler. Baron, I'm not suggesting that the US/UK joint with the Germans to force the USSR out. View source. 10:00 pm: Prague is secured, and 15 SS officials are shot while resisting arrest. Operation Valkyrie and a dead Hitler: Part II. Instascan JS wil help to find all camera attach with your system or mobile and you can read barcode using anyone that you want. List of Prime Ministers of the United States of America (A United Kingdom of Scandinavia), Double Collapse: The Entire Collapse of Communism. A longstanding debate among historians is whether or not Operation Barbarossa could have actually succeeded. The Fhrer is now dead, and that cannot be helped. 4:00 am:Reinhard Heydrich and a company of Waffen SS guards and Gestapoofficers barricade themselves in the Bindler Block as they are now cut off from theSS Fuhrungshauptamt, their headquarters. The Luftwaffe gains control of the air over Sword Beach and thealmost four divisions of theBritish 2ndArmy sufferall day from constant bombings and strafings. 10:00am:Stauffenburg returns to Reserve ArmyHeadquarters and tellsGeneralsBeck and Olbrecht in personthat the SS Fuhrungshauptampt has been secured. June 6th, 1944: D-Day; Allies land at Normandy and gain a beachhead by the end of the day. So, basically, you have to copy bellow html code and run in your system. Hitler suicide was almost 9 months after the operation which ended the war. Over 1,200 soldiers total died in the opening volley. by Carl Schwamberger 09 Jul 2009, 02:42, Post Cookie Notice Reserve Army troops begintooccupy the restof the SS buildings. Flying bombs destroy six bridges all over Normandy, blocking almost all movement of tanks and trucks. Baron, I am not sure whether you are arguing what you think would have happened, or what you hope would have happened. Life in the Third Reich & Weimar Republic, Kriegsmarine surface ships and Kriegsmarine in general, Luftwaffe air units and Luftwaffe in general, German Strategy & General German Military Discussion, NSDAP, other party organizations & Government, The Dieter Zinke Axis Biographical Research Section, The Ron Klages Panzer & other vehicles Section, Panzer & other vehicles - Photo threads, Axis Documents, Feldpost numbers, Postcards & Other Paper Items, The United Kingdom & its Empire and Commonwealth 1919-45, The Allies and the Neutral States in general, German Colonies and Overseas Expeditions, The end of the Ottoman Empire 1908-1923, Translation help: Breaking the Sound Barrier. Roosevelt was on good terms with Stalin. To hastenthe assault, adozen canisters of nerve gas is brought toclear out the buildings. Unconditional surrender only to the West? Let us not consider the issue of agreement with the Allies, now. Assume that Goebbels isn't allowed to phone Hitler, but is locked away in one of Berlin's deeper dungeons, or shot out of hand, along with the Gestapo leadership, and Operation Valkyrie is fully implemented in all its parts, with the military taking over as planned. 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